Legislature(2017 - 2018)HOUSE FINANCE 519
04/25/2017 04:00 PM House FINANCE
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB177 | |
| HB74 HOUSE BILL NO. 74 | |
| Public Testimony | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 177 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 74 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HOUSE BILL NO. 74
"An Act relating to the implementation of the federal
REAL ID Act of 2005; and relating to issuance of
identification cards and driver's licenses; and
providing for an effective date."
4:21:50 PM
EDWARD HASBROUCK, CONSULTANT, THE IDENTITY PROJECT (via
teleconference), provided detail about the organization. He
testified in opposition to the legislation. He noted that
his concerns had been outline in a letter sent to the
committee (copy on file.) He spoke to the cost for
compliance with the REAL-ID Act, which he contended were
not included in the current fiscal notes attached to the
bill. He stated that the Department of Administration and
the Department of Motor Vehicles had testified that
participation in the act would require uploading all Alaska
driver's licenses and state ID cards into the SPEXS
database, which had been developed to enable states to
comply with the data-sharing requirements of the REAL-ID
Act. No other system exists or is under development that
would enable any state to comply and none of the costs of
SPEXS participation was included in the fiscal notes. He
lamented that the costs associated with the SPEXS database
were unknown. He detailed more of his concern with the
SPEXS database.
4:26:12 PM
Mr. Hasbrouck addressed the issue of whether a Real-ID
would be needed to pass through Transportation Security
Administration (TSA) checkpoints at airports. He related
that documents released to the organization by TSA showed
that on average, 77,000 people each year more than 200
per day passed through TSA checkpoints without showing
ID. Ninety-eight percent of the would-be travelers who
showed up at TSA checkpoints without ID or with
"acceptable" ID could board these flights, after
questioning that took an average of between seven and none
minutes. He furthered that threats by the Department of
Homeland Security (DHS), TSA, and state officials about
what Congress will do to impose new requirements were
speculation and not based on any current of proposed law.
4:31:23 PM
Mr. Hasbrouck discussed how a passport card compared to a
compliant driver's license. He asserted that it would be
harder to acquire a compliant Real ID that it currently was
to get a passport. Mr. Hasbrouck stated that to apply for a
passport card if you did not already have a passport,
residents must go to a designated Post Office, in person,
with only one or two of the following documents:
1. Birth or naturalization certificate or other evidence of
U.S. citizenship
2. Evidence of your identity (which can be provided by an
identifying witness)
He explained that to apply for a compliant driver's license
or state ID, residents must go to a DMV office, in person,
with original copies of four documents:
1. Birth or naturalization certificate or other
evidence of U.S. citizenship
2. Evidence of your identity (which must be in the
form of an ID card or document)
3. Evidence of your residence in Alaska
4. Original Social Security card
Mr. Hasbrouck stated that a passport card could be used for
everything that a REAL-ID could be used for except for
driving. He lamented that the people that would be most
adversely affected by REAL-ID Act compliance included the
elderly, people who were born at home, people who have
moved far from their place of birth, and people who could
not afford to wait months to obtain documents from other
states. He hoped that the committee would reject the
legislation.
4:33:23 PM
Representative Thompson asked about the need for the REAL
ID to access military bases. He opined that the increased
desire for passport cards had contributed to long wait
periods for obtaining the cards.
Mr. Hasbrouck answered that typically in other states it
took substantially longer to get compliant state
identification. He hoped that the legislature could get a
discretionary extension from DHS, but he added that would
only postponed the problem. He said that if the federal
government followed through on the threats to restrict
unescorted access to military bases, people would have to
get either a compliant state ID or a passport card.
4:35:48 PM
Representative Ortiz believed the issues for The Identity
Project concerning the act were related to privacy
concerns. He suggested that the information was already out
there for most Alaskans, and that going to REAL-ID would
not jeopardize the privacy of Alaskans.
Mr. Hasbrouck responded that if a person was required to
give their information to a government agency it would be
protected by a variety of laws. He said that because the
SPEXS database was being run by a contractor for a private
non-profit organization, it was not subject to the federal
privacy act, and none of the protections of accountability
and transparency were in place that would normally be
associated with a government database. He warned that it
could be possible for the government to secretly demand the
information found on the SPEXS database. He added that the
system had limited capacity to update information that
would be shared between states.
Vice-Chair Gara asked for clarification on required
identification for airline travel.
Mr. Hasbrouck explained that 98 percent of people with no
ID at all were allowed on planes.
Vice-Chair Gara asked about the TSA website information
that stated that a driver's license would be unacceptable
after January 1, 2018.
Mr. Hasbrouck answered that the information was speculation
based on what the TSA believed Congress might do. He said
that he had heard sworn testimony from TSA agents in court
that had stated that the information was not completely
accurate.
Representative Wilson asked which of the 20 state that were
still working under a waiver had decided to enact
legislation on the issue.
Mr. Hasbrouck answered that at least 40 states were
noncompliant. He said that only the small number of states
participating in the SPEXS system were considered
compliant.
4:40:21 PM
Representative Wilson spoke to states on a waiver at
present. She wondered how many states that had received a
waiver were working toward compliance.
Mr. Hasbrouck thought that many states were pursuing
waivers because that process was easier than becoming
compliant.
Representative Pruitt spoke to the June 6, 2017 deadline
for military base access. He asked if Alaska was the only
state with that deadline. He wondered what other states
were doing to ensure people had access to air travel and to
military bases.
Mr. Hasbrouck referred to the date as a "threat date" and
not a deadline. He lamented that the dates had been
arbitrary and should be subject to constitutional challenge
for denying equal protection to residents of different
states. He relayed that most people working on bases
already had federal ID.
Representative Pruitt expressed concern that the state
could be "playing chicken" with the federal government. He
worried that Alaskans might lose access to employment on
military bases and that the state could lose access to
federal dollars for being non-compliant. He wondered what
ramifications the state would face for non-compliance.
4:44:43 PM
Mr. Hasbrouck did not believe there had been another state
that had experienced as much potential adverse impact as
Alaska feared. He said that he was not suggesting "playing
chicken" with the federal government. He stated that if the
federal government was threatening to interfere with the
rights of Alaskans then the state should prepare for
litigation. He thought that the state should hold off on
capitulation until the courts determined whether the
federal government's demands were backed by any legal
force.
Representative Pruitt argued that Alaska did not have money
to litigate. There were many other challenges facing the
state. He asked if litigation was the only mechanism to
challenge the act and he wondered how the state should go
about it. He recalled being told by the ACLU the prior week
that it would not necessarily have strong standing in
court. He wondered what alternative tools were available as
an alternative to litigation. He queried legal actions that
could be taken by residents who could not litigate.
4:48:11 PM
Mr. Hasbrouck responded that if the state could not afford
to litigate then it could also not afford the open-ended
costs associated with compliance with the act. He said that
it was likely that the state would have better standing in
court than individual Alaskans because federal courts
accepted the standing of states to assert their residents
interest in travel as the basis for federal challenges. He
asserted that litigation, rather than compliance, would
cost less in the long term.
Representative Pruitt asked whether there were other states
looking to litigate.
Mr. Hasbrouck replied that the issue was speculative. He
elaborated that he had spoken to legislators from other
states that were exploring alternatives to compliance.
4:51:44 PM
Representative Guttenberg asked whether any states had been
successful in challenging the federal government on the
matter.
Mr. Hasbrouck answered that the issue was critical to the
state. He said that residents should have the right to do
their jobs and to move about the state and country as they
wished. He relayed that the REAL-ID Act had an initial
schedule of 3 years for implementation starting in 2005,
and that states had be threatened with sanctions for non-
compliance by 2008. He related that the reason that the
sanctions had not be imposed on any state was because
states had continued to resist; the deadlines currently
being given by the federal government were merely threats
without validity. He shared that there had been states that
had been successful in bringing lawsuits on behalf of their
residents that had resulted in injunctions against some of
the executive orders restricting travel and immigration.
4:55:01 PM
Representative Guttenberg expressed dissatisfaction with
Mr. Hasbrouck's answer.
^PUBLIC TESTIMONY
4:55:21 PM
DON ETHERIDGE, ALASKA AFL-CIO, JUNEAU, spoke in support of
HB 74. He emphasized the importance of worker's being able
to travel to work.
4:56:52 PM
Representative Grenn queried the number of members of the
AFL-CIO.
Mr. Ethridge responded that there were approximately 55
thousand members in the state.
4:57:09 PM
Vice-Chair Gara wondered about the expressed difficulty of
acquiring a passport card by those that opposed the
legislation.
Mr. Ethridge stated that the concerns had to do with the
length of time to get an original passport, and the length
of time for replacement if lost. He said that a REAL-ID
could be replaced in a timely manner.
4:58:20 PM
Representative Pruitt thought it was possible to receive
two passports.
Mr. Ethridge was unaware of the possibility of getting two
passports.
Co-Chair Foster offered several reminders regarding public
testimony.
4:59:34 PM
JERRI ROE, SELF, JUNEAU, spoke in opposition of opposition
of HB 74. She had read that by 2020, passports would no
longer be sufficient for air travel or military base
access. She expressed concern that travel would be
restricted. She contended that the federal government
should not be allowed to give her private identity to a
private company.
5:02:09 PM
JOHN SONIN, SELF, JUNEAU, spoke in opposition of HB 74. He
was concerned with the possible limitations on air travel.
5:05:40 PM
BARBARA HUFF-TUCKNESS, TEAMSTERS, JUNEAU, testified in
favor of the legislation. She reiterated that the REAL-ID
was optional and that alternative choices were available.
She listed that members of her organization that were
already required to have a federally required driver's
license. She understood that people were concerned for
their right to privacy. She said that many Alaskans would
be impacted by the legislation.
Representative Wilson wondered what would stop the federal
government from issuing more identification requirements.
Ms. Huff-Tuckness reiterated her statement that the
legislation offered residents a choice not to participate.
Representative Wilson asked whether she had encouraged
workers to apply for passports.
Ms. Huff-Tuckness replied that there had been discussion
about the issue. She furthered that passports were
expensive and time consuming to acquire. She felt that a
system should be in place that every Alaskan could access
to get an ID in a timely manner. She believed that the
state could offer residents an ID that was less expensive,
but allowed for the opportunity to travel for work.
5:12:10 PM
JOAN PRIESTLEY M.D., DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR HEALTH
RENEWAL, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference), spoke against the
bill. She asserted that it was currently possible to fly
and gain access to military bases without identification.
She elaborated on her concerns about privacy rights. She
opined the expense to the state for a federally unfunded
mandate.
5:17:15 PM
WILLIAM HARRINGTON, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference),
testified in opposition to the legislation. He expressed
concern for the right to privacy.
5:19:08 PM
MATT FLANDERS, CITIZEN COUNCIL FOR HEALTH FREEDOM,
MINNESOTA (via teleconference), spoke against the
legislation. He reiterated the concerns of previous
testifiers. He argued that the act did not protect the
country from terrorism, but created a new set of problems
surrounding data security. He said that Alaska had received
$684,000 in 2011 under the National Driver's License
Security Grants Program. He wondered what had been done
with the funds. He urged the committee to vote against the
bill.
5:22:54 PM
Representative Wilson requested further information about
the grant.
Mr. Flanders said that he would provide the information.
5:23:33 PM
VINCE BELTRAMI, ALASKA AFL-CIO, ANCHORAGE (via
teleconference), spoke in favor of the bill. He understood
that there most states were working toward compliance with
the act. He asserted that it was not up to base commanders
to choose which identification could be used to enter
military bases. He thought that those that currently flew
without ID were subject to more intense screening at
airports, and that soon flying without a compliant ID would
not be allowed beginning 2018. He worried about the
civilians that needed to access military bases for work. He
believed that requiring Alaskans to get a passport to go to
work was cumbersome, expensive, and ignored the possibility
that there were some workers who could not obtain a
passport. He reiterated that compliance was voluntary under
the legislation.
5:27:52 PM
BECCA BRADO, PROJECT MANAGER, FAIRBANKS ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, FAIRBANKS (via teleconference),
testified in support of the legislation. She stated that if
people did not have REAL ID they could be accompanied on
base; however, the base had 5,000 visitors monthly and it
was unrealistic to think that they would all be accompanied
by an escort with access. She spoke to the lengthy time it
took to get a passport. She stressed that the state had
worked extremely hard to get construction contracts on
bases, and the funds that accompanied them, and underscored
that the state needed to live up to its end of the bargain.
She did not want to potentially deny people work.
Representative Wilson noted that the committee had heard
about Minnesota and Missouri being noncompliant and that
people were still able to gain access to military bases.
Ms. Brado answered she did not have information about
Minnesota.
Representative Wilson asked whether the testifier believed
that bases in Minnesota were breaking the federal law.
Ms. Brado maintained that she could not speak to that
question.
Vice-Chair Gara referred to testimony from opposition that
it would be possible for a person to obtain a passport card
if they did not want a REAL-ID. He asked whether the
testifier knew if it took longer to get a passport card
than a REAL-ID.
Ms. Brado answered that it was a minimum of 4 weeks waiting
time for an appointment in Fairbanks, and 6 to 8 weeks
beyond that to receive the passport card. She believed that
REAL-ID card would be issued more quickly.
5:32:09 PM
AVES THOMPSON, ALASKA TRUCKING ASSOCIATION, ANCHORAGE (via
teleconference), testified in favor of the bill. He spoke
to commercial driver's license requirements. He said that
military installations were governed by federal rules, and
that after June 2017, people would need a federally
recognized form of identification to gain access to
military bases. He urged the committee to pass the bill.
5:34:39 PM
PATRICE LEE, SELF, FAIRBANKS (via teleconference),
testified in support of the bill. She did not like the idea
that a national organization that she could not contact had
her personal information. She shared that her mother
received healthcare from Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson,
and expressed concern that she might not be able to get on
the base quickly if her mother had a medical emergency. She
noted that the bill offered a choice, and thought the bill
offered a good compromise to the issue.
5:37:08 PM
DANIEL LYNCH, SELF, SOLDOTNA (via teleconference),
testified in opposition to the bill, and stressed the right
to privacy under the constitution. He said that he had
worked at Fort Greely several times, and under different
private employers. He stated that the employers had vetted
him upon employment. He worried about the unintended
consequences of the legislation.
5:39:39 PM
WILLIAM WARREN, SELF, NIKISKI (via teleconference), spoke
against the bill. He offered a personal history of working
travel in the state.
5:41:32 PM
MIKE COONS, SELF, PALMER (via teleconference), testified
against the bill. He said that he understood how access to
military bases worked. He said that any non-military person
seeking access to a base would not be granted access
without a sponsor. He stated that commanders made policy as
to access, and if the state did not comply with the act
commanders would not stop needed workers from getting to
their job sites. He assumed that if airlines suffered a
loss of passengers because of the state's non-compliance,
the airlines would urge the federal government to
reconsider its actions well before mandatory
implementation.
5:44:31 PM
PAUL D. KENDALL, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference),
spoke favor of the bill.
Co-Chair Foster recognized Representative Lora Reinbold in
the audience.
5:49:09 PM
BOB MURPHY, SELF, KODIAK (via teleconference), testified in
support of the legislation. He reiterated that the
legislation offered Alaskans a choice.
5:51:18 PM
ROSS MULLINS, SELF, CORDOVA (via teleconference), testified
in support of the legislation. He shared that he was no
longer driving due to his poor vision. He continued that he
had traveled for surgery the prior year and had been
required to receive a state ID. He wanted the legislature
to ensure state IDs were qualifying under the act. He
shared that he had no fear his information would be misused
any more than was already currently possible.
5:55:08 PM
Vice-Chair Gara relayed that it would be possible to
receive a REAL ID compliant state ID.
Co-Chair Seaton referred to questions related to Minnesota
and whether the state was compliant. He referred to a
handout titled "Current Status of States/Territories" from
the Department of Homeland Security website (copy on file).
He said that Minnesota currently had an enhanced ID and
federal officials were continuing to accept enhanced ID
from non-compliant states.
5:56:19 PM
PAM GOODE, SELF, RURAL DELTANA (via teleconference),
testified against the bill. She believed that the act was
unconstitutional. She said that the fiscal impact would be
detrimental to the state.
5:59:26 PM
JAMES SQUYRES, SELF, RURAL DELTANA (via teleconference),
spoke against the bill. He stated the legislation violated
the state constitution and carried a $1.5 million fiscal
note. He felt that most people already had passports and
that requiring a REAL ID would be redundant.
Co-Chair Foster recognized that Representative Jonathan
Kreiss-Tomkins had been present in the audience.
6:02:47 PM
AT EASE
6:32:18 PM
RECONVENED
Co-Chair Foster CLOSED public testimony.
Representative Wilson stated that she had researched the
enhanced ID available in Minnesota, which had been
available prior to the REAL-ID Act. She said that even with
the enhanced Ids, the state was considered non-compliant by
the federal government. She felt that the language
concerning necessary changes in state statute for non-
compliant IDs had been clearer in the governor's original
bill.
LESLIE RIDLE, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF
ADMINISTRATION, did not believe it was the intent of the
House State Affairs Committee to eliminate the choice
between a compliant and non-compliant ID. She explained
that all DMV regulations had to be approved by the
legislature.
Representative Wilson said she would submit her question to
the sponsor in writing.
6:36:27 PM
AT EASE
6:37:06 PM
RECONVENED
HB 74 was HEARD and HELD in committee for further
consideration.
Co-Chair Foster addressed housekeeping.
Co-Chair Seaton asked for clarification.
Co-Chair Foster noted that amendments to the legislation
were due on Friday, April 28 at 5:00 p.m. He recessed the
meeting to a call of the chair [note: the meeting never
reconvened].
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB74_Support_042417.pdf |
HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM |
HB 74 |
| HB 74 - Document in Support Joint Armed Services transcript.pdf |
HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM |
HB 74 |
| HB 74 JBER Flier re base access. 4.25.17.pdf |
HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM |
HB 74 |
| HB 74Alaska-REAL-ID-finance-25APR2017.pdf |
HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM |
HB 74 |
| HB74_Amend_042517.pdf |
HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM |
HB 74 |
| HB74_Oppose_042517.pdf |
HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM |
HB 74 |
| HB74_Support_042517.pdf |
HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM |
HB 74 |
| HB177 Supporting Document - Article Peninsula Clarion 4.25.17.pdf |
HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM |
HB 177 |
| HB 177 Supporting Document.pdf |
HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM |
HB 177 |
| HB 74 Supporting Document Current Status of States Homeland Security.pdf |
HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM |
HB 74 |
| HB 74 Alaska S2S Verification Services Agreement.pdf |
HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM |
HB 74 |
| HB 74 H FIN follow up re AAMVA 4.25.17.pdf |
HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM |
HB 74 |
| CS HB 74 (STA) Summary of Changes.pdf |
HFIN 4/25/2017 4:00:00 PM |
HB 74 |